At 9pm EST on July 30, 2009, the candidates for the contested election for the President-Elect of NCRA met in online chat for a debate. Wade Garner moderated the debate and asked the questions sent to him by audience members. Below is a transcript of the debate.
Wade Garner I believe it is time to start. I wish to welcome everyone here tonight. I would remind you to turn your mode to "whisper" at this time, and then I will post a short opening greeting.
Wade Garner I wish to welcome everyone to this President-elect Online Debate. It is my privilege to be your moderator this evening. My name is Wade Garner, and I am in Alberta, Canada. Our two candidates for the position of President-elect join us this evening from the State of Illinois. This truly is an international event!
Wade Garner The debate rules have been posted above. I trust everyone has had an opportunity to familiarize themselves with the rules. Please remember to use the "whisper" mode and submit your questions to me so I can direct them to the candidates.
Wade Garner I remind everyone that NCRA membership will vote on the position of President-elect next Thursday, August 6, 2009. Online voting is now available to NCRA membership. A more detailed communication relating to online voting will be emailed to eligible NCRA voters in the very near future.
Wade Garner I am looking forward to hearing (reading) the questions asked and each candidate's response.
Wade Garner I would invite Judy Lehman to start us off tonight by making an opening statement.
Judy Lehman Thank you, Wade.
Judy Lehman Thank you to everyone for joining us tonight and giving of your time and energy. This is a wonderful resource for us to be able to utilize. I would love to have a face-to-face chat but due to our limitations that isn't possible.
Judy Lehman I welcome the opportunity to confab with everyone, to hear your questions and your ideas and concerns.
Judy Lehman I did want to mention briefly to smooth my typing along... I am medically forbidden from writing steno at this time, so I'll be using my trusty QWERTY keyboard. I will let the typos go (though it's SO hard to do) in an effort to facilitate our [progress and keep things rolling.
Judy Lehman And with no further ado, I'll turn things over to Melanie and will leave you with further contact and background information at the conclusion of our session. Thank you!!
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Thanks so much, everybody, for tuning in tonight to help inform your decision on your next president. The miracles of technology and the fun of online chatting!
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Thanks so much, everybody, for tuning in tonight to help inform your decision on your next president. The miracles of technology and the fun of online chatting!
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Whoops!
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I appreciate your taking the time to submit the prior questions, read these comments, and to ask us whatever is on your mind. We're here for you and ready to get started!
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag That's what I meant to say!
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Let's begin, Wade!
Wade Garner Thank you, both. I would welcome any questions that you wish me to pose to the candidates.
Wade Garner Please whisper your questions to me, and I will relay the question to the candidates.
Wade Garner To start things off, I would like to ask the candidates where you see NCRA in ten year's time. We will start the answers with Judy.
Judy Lehman Reporters will continue to be the subject matter experts and control the record making environment to integrate to not only court and judicial/legal uses but those in business and education as well.
Judy Lehman Thanks!
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Like many of you, our investments took a hit last fall. I believe that NCRA will be healthier financially in 10 years. I also believe that membership will actually be up, thereby increasing our dues revenue.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I think our members will be happier, more content with their chosen profession.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I think our schools will be pumping out more and higher qualified students. I believe that there may be fewer schools in the country but students will be coming out quicker, provider more reporters in the field.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I think realtime will be the standard; when you think of "Court Reporter" you'll think of a realtime writer automatically.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I agree with Judy that we will be the technological leaders, both reporters individually, through our marketing Court Reporter value programs, and NCRA as the overarching "home" where we all belong together.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I believe our members will be more welcoming to new reporters coming into the field and we'll do more in the field training of "youngsters" to help them learn the ropes, working together instead of at odds with so much competition as we've seen in recent years.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Thanks, Wade.
Wade Garner Follow-up, Judy, if you wish.
Judy Lehman It's not as easy to let the typos go as I thought
Judy Lehman I do believe we will learn from what has worked and has not worked in our school environments, definitely.
Judy Lehman We will continue to sharpen our teaching tools, learn more about the ways students learn,
Judy Lehman And offer quicker turnarounds in our educational environment.
Judy Lehman Reporters have always been a warm and welcome community.
Judy Lehman Every time I attend a reporting function, I feel at home.
Judy Lehman We do need to learn to better communiccate who we are with persons outside the reporting profession, however.
Judy Lehman And to get our message across that we're here to stay, we're here to help, and that what we want most is to serve our consumers and public and be part of their team.
Judy Lehman Thanks, Wade
Wade Garner Follow-up, Melanie, if you wish.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I think we've covered that. Court reporters and NCRA have been part of record-keeping history for over a hundred years and I see us very clearly continuing that but more fiscally sound, in the next 10 years. Thanks.
Wade Garner A question from Diane Sonntag:
Wade Garner What do you feel the new certification regarding trial presentation brings to court reporters?
Wade Garner Melanie, your response first, please.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I'm excited about the doors opening with the new trial presentation program. I think, by NCRA leading the way in providing training in this technology that we continue our establishment of court reporters as the hub of the record-making process in courtrooms and beyond.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I'm excited that we're able to include peripheral support people who have been part of the court reporting profession for years into an area where we can utilize their expertise for the benefit of the public, bench, and bar.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Again, we're where the experts are, and we're providing the trial presentation program, training, certifying, educating, and promoting the value that we can facilitate for the good of others.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I think this is a program that has been a long time coming and truly enhances the image of the traditional Court Reporter with the multimedia future, changing the "Oh, you're still using that little old machine" mentality to "Wow, you do all THAT?"
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Thanks, Wade.
Wade Garner Judy, please.
Judy Lehman With NCRA offering the trial presentation cert, it showcases that "we" are at the leading edge and we know technology
Judy Lehman We will continue to grow and bring to the court system what works best in our changing environment.
Judy Lehman Studies show that today's juror's and litigators want adn need to use tools that, um, SOME of us didn't know about as children...
Judy Lehman But we are able to keep up and integrate those new tools into our offerings.
Judy Lehman And yes, trial presentation in court will be used by persons other than reproters.
Judy Lehman Anythign that makes the process better improves our abilities to do our jobs.
Judy Lehman And again showcases we will stay on the leading edge.
Judy Lehman And reporters do engage in trial presentation offerings in the back ofc
Judy Lehman Certainly the litigation support tools we use to integrate with the attorneys adn the courts' processes and services make the system run more smoothly.
Judy Lehman Thanks, Wade.
Wade Garner Short follow-up, Melanie, if you wish.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Peripheral technology for showcasing and interacting with exhibits, as well as highlighting and videoing is a nice addition. By providing the multimedia aspects in our toolkit, we're able to showcase -- again -- the hub of the realtime writer at the center of the interactive, streaming text, indispensable in the program.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Everybody loves technology and the exciting bells and whistles. To be the center of the knowledge base further cements the reporter's future.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Thanks
Wade Garner Short follow-up, Judy, if you wish.
Judy Lehman Trial presentation also gives reporters another "area" to branch into and more opportunities for employment, say for instance, with someone who may have a medical difficulty that would keep them from traditional reporting roles.
Judy Lehman And brings and exciting addition to litigation.
Judy Lehman Thanks, Wade.
Wade Garner The next question is from Marcia Patrisso:
Wade Garner How would you handle the current strife between some of the membership and the Board of Directors if you were the president?
Wade Garner Judy first, please.
Judy Lehman I mentioned in previous answers that I would REALLY like to see interaction between the board and members
Judy Lehman in a face to face setting. To begin with.
Judy Lehman I think it would be cool to set up a press conference type situation where members could bring live questions to the board.
Judy Lehman We could dialogue even better in that way. We do a lot online these days but face to face is the optimal method when possible.
Judy Lehman We could do that at annual and midyear conferences, at regional conferences. It would be a good way
Judy Lehman for members to stay engaged, share thoughts adn ideas with the board
Judy Lehman and the board would have a great avenue to keep members abreast of current information
Judy Lehman and another oppt to community in addition to the online and print media that we utilize now
Judy Lehman Like a super town hall, I guess.
Judy Lehman The NCRA board strives for greater transparency adn greater communication. I think this woud be yet anotehr effective tool.
Judy Lehman Thanks, Wade.
Wade Garner Melanie, please.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I believe the members have a lot more to say than people sometimes give them credit for. I believe a personal contact, reaching out, can sometimes heal a hurt or potential hurt and/or head off a looming misunderstanding.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I'm not afraid to pick up the phone or drop an e-mail to someone to make sure I'm understanding their point of view and listening to their input. Just today I had the opportunity to visit with a member by e-mail and work out an issue that could have led to a far bigger misunderstanding.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I believe in open, honest, and continual communication, on a personal level as well as a board and member level. I think the more interaction we have the better, including in person but also including between meetings, on the forum, on the other social net worrying sites, getting to know each other as people.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag When we have the opportunity to be in person at conventions, et cetera, it's great when we can mingle with each other and sit side by side in a seminar and just plain visit.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag To address the current strife going on, I think it's more important now than ever to reach out to the individual members and ask their opinions, get their buy-in to the programs that the board sees as potentially on the horizon, and go beyond the four walls of our board meeting room to really ask people on the street what their opinions are -- and share theTON of information that the board is privy to.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I don't know if communication can heal all strife, but I think being accessible and chatting in a nonconfrontational setting often goes a long way toward further understanding.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag thanks, Wade.
Wade Garner Short follow-up, Judy, if you wish.
Judy Lehman Another thing we can utilize more is the social chat we had a couple months ago.
Judy Lehman It really was one of the most engaging activities -- and especially for online -- that I've ever done.
Judy Lehman I was soooooo tired when we began at 9 p.m. my time, I didn't think I'd be able to stay awake.
Judy Lehman But I was so energized at the end of the session, I wasn't ready to quit!
Judy Lehman It helped me get to know more about the people on the chat, sure in a social atmosphere, but we talked about our work environments too
Judy Lehman and things that were of important and concern to us.
Judy Lehman How many times have you gotten some real business done or some incredible networking oppts at a purely social function.
Judy Lehman We need to enjoy each other more. That will foster a feeling of community and help us work better togt and build trust.
Judy Lehman Thanks, Wade.
Wade Garner Short follow-up, Melanie, if you wish.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Good, old-fashioned, respectful conversation, looking at things from all angles and listening to varying viewpoints. More information never leads to a worse decision, in my opinion. And, of course, conversation can be online, by chats, by tweeting, by e-mail . . . by being in touch with each other. I think the new social networks have increased the cocooning effect, and I'd like to get back good, old-fashioned, shared conversation.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Thanks.
Wade Garner The next question is from Sandy VanderPol:
Wade Garner NCRA has a strong educational and testing agenda for its members. Can you think outside the box and make a few suggestions where NCRA could expand its member services, and especially in the area of technology?
Wade Garner Melanie first, please.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag The first thing that springs to my mind is the new trial presentation certificates, and I think they hold huge opportunities to expand our member -- and public -- services.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag One of the things that was addressed in our strategic plan was that NCRA needs to be able to offer its services -- not membership but services -- to others outside the court reporting field. I think the trial presentation program is a good first step, an entree to the potential offering of technological services beyond what we've considered our traditional marketplace, court reporters and very close peripheral support staff.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I think NCRA's continuing to offer educational seminars is one of the main ways to get traditional reporters to learn more about technology -- kicking and screaming though some of us are -- or were! -- and, again, NCRA being where the experts are, we listen to those presenting at our conferences and those accredited by our CEU process.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I think NCRA's branching out too certifying trial presentation services helps reporters move down the road to, yes, see what other services a freelance firm, for instance, should be offering for the benefit of their clients and/or helps official reporters see the various multimedia opportunities that are beginning to add to the usual courthouse menu.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Thanks.
Wade Garner Judy, please.
Judy Lehman Yes, Wade. We need to be attending more meetings, conferences, seminars for legal adn judicial and management organizations.
Judy Lehman That way we make more contacts, we find out what our audiences are looking to do in the future
Judy Lehman We can get in on the ground floor.
Judy Lehman We can develop what they need if we don't have it yet.
Judy Lehman We can offer our educational seminars to them. We then teach them the value of what we have to offer.
Judy Lehman How many times (again!) have you been at a function
Judy Lehman with a peripheral group and made some really valuable contact.
Judy Lehman So and so knows so and so who can help you with this.
Judy Lehman It really gets the mental juices flowing and can provide GREAT partnering opportunities.
Judy Lehman I had the privilege of attending
Judy Lehman the ABA annual technology conference this spring
Judy Lehman on behalf of our Tech Eval Commi9ttee.
Judy Lehman It was awesome.
Judy Lehman Richard Susskind was the featured speaker.
Judy Lehman I remember him saying, the best way to secure your future is to invent it.
Judy Lehman This was in a room of about 500 lawyers.
Judy Lehman And it was so quiet when RS spoke, you could hear a pin drop.
Judy Lehman Thanks, Wade.
Wade Garner Short follow-up, Melanie, if you wish.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag The realtime systems administrator program is a wonderful hybrid of reporter technology with consumer technology. I expected a lot from that program and it far exceeded my expectations when I took it in June. We can all work magic with our machines, and stretching our capabilities to see what realtime adds from the consumer's point of view -- and being able to offer it consistently -- is invaluable . . . create maintaining our indispensability. Continuing our involvement with the Court Technology Conferences will help us continue to showcase the value of court reporters to peripheral groups of administrators and other hiring authorities.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Showcasing ourselves as techno savvy goes a long way toward increasing the networking opportunities we have and we interact with "real people," hiring authorities, administrators, the bench and bar.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Thanks, Wade.
Wade Garner Short follow-up, Judy, if you wish.
Judy Lehman I think I covered it, Wade. Thanks It's all about networking and partnering and keeping up with what the Joneses -- you gotta find out waht the Joneses want and show them what they need! Thanks.
Wade Garner The next question is from G. Allen Sonntag:
Wade Garner Do you believe the total immersion steno teaching program is the answer? If so, why no specifics from the program that is many months down the road?
Wade Garner Judy first, please.
Judy Lehman I certainly hope the Total Immersion program is all we dream it can be.
Judy Lehman Certainly at this point it is progressing well and we are making the benchmarks taht have been set.
Judy Lehman We do have regular reports on how it is progressing. We know that the students are progressing through their theory
Judy Lehman meeting their weekly goals and moving along the continuum that is being expected.
Judy Lehman All of the students are very engaged and are showing up every day -- yes!!! and doing their assignemnt and passing.
Judy Lehman I'm not sure what specifics you mean in addition to those.
Judy Lehman Kathy DiLorenzo gave a report fairly recently about the progress that is ebing made.
Judy Lehman We will continue to learn more as weeks and months progress and know if the benchmarks continue to be met at each stage.
Judy Lehman Thanks, Wade.
Wade Garner Melanie, please.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I don't know if TIPP is the answer, but I know that what was done for the prior 10 years in the educational field wasn't working. There weren't enough "street-ready" reporters coming out of the schools to meet the demand; hence, I think the lack of reporters in the field contributed to some segments of the country looking to other record-making methods. Hopefully, even if the Total Immersion Pilot Program isn't 100 percent successful, we'll learn more about the things that schools need to adapt in order to create curricula that turn out better students faster.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag One of the things that TIPP did that I hope many schools are doing is that they carefully screened the students coming into the program, finding those who were ready to devote the necessary practice time and had the necessary personality skills suited to the reporting world, such as ability to work independently, ability for meet deadlines.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Although I hope that schools will more carefully screen applicants, I've been told that many times it's not appropriate or logical to screen someone -- for instance, right out of high school -- as their personality characteristics aren't necessarily formed toward the field of reporting at that pointed.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I know I became more of a workaholic after I became a reporter than I was when I started reporting school right out of high school, for instance! Is it nature or nurture? I wonder.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I think some of the theory points involved in total immersion program may yield great results, and, as Judy said, it will be interesting to see if the students actually get done in a year and whether or not we will be able to garner some groundbreaking new teaching tools for the rest of our schools around the country.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag It's certainly worth looking at. Whether or not it is the end-all and be-all is yet to be determined, in my opinion. I look forward to the results and appreciate the reports we are getting.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Fortunately, part of the program is that the students get to come to the convention next week, and I hope to meet many of them. Can you imagine how exciting it would be if you were halfway through your schooling and got to go to the national convention? I think it would be wonderful, having never attended as a student. The TIPP is an amazing program and, hopefully, will yield results in many areas.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Thanks.
Wade Garner Short follow-up, Judy, if you wish.
Judy Lehman Frankly, even if these students take say 14 or 15 or 16 months and still complete with rousing success, we've got a hit on our hands. One of the things we know about Gen Y-ers and even Gen X-ers to some extent is that they learn with different methods
Judy Lehman And we have to adapt our teaching methods to the way they learn. That's true of all students, no matter what the age <G>
Judy Lehman Those groups will also change careers many more times int heri lifetimes than most of us have.
Judy Lehman We have to account for that in our profession and adapt or we'll lose them all.
Judy Lehman So, we HAVE to adapt.
Judy Lehman I have 2 Gen-Y ers in my home.
Judy Lehman They can be frustrating at times (my 2, that is)
Judy Lehman But I've learned the way they learn and what m otivates them and what their strengths are.
Judy Lehman By realizing that and helping them with their interests, we've had great success with college careers.
Judy Lehman And identifying where their strengtrhs are.
Judy Lehman as an educator I see that in our school too.
Judy Lehman It would be nice if we all learned in the same waywith the same motivations but that just isnt' the case.
Judy Lehman We're becoming better at analyzing our teaching tools and learning methods.
Judy Lehman And we've got room to improve. LOL.
Judy Lehman We'll get there.
Judy Lehman Thanks, Wade.
Wade Garner Short follow-up, Melanie, if you wish.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Some of the techniques of the TIPP theory are going back to the "legacy" days. It will be great to see the outcome, and I eagerly await new reports of progress. I think one of the problems that many schools made in recent years was adapting theories that were working for speed and we became more focused on writing pretty realtime than on getting a record. Going back to the future may be just what we need to do!
IMelanie Humphrey-Sonntag think it will be definitely worth exploring to see if we can help "fix" our education system in order to get more reporters into the field. Thanks
Wade Garner I realize we are almost at one hour, but I would like to pose one last question. I apologize for not getting to all of the questions. This comes from Shirley Houston:
Wade Garner Past presidents that I have known over rhe years say that it is a tremendous financial burden by the time you work your way up through the ranks. The president-elect, president and past persident all are tremendously expensive positions to hold. Would each candidate tell us what they plan on doing -- teaching, reporting, vendor, firm owner, CART, captioning, etc. -- and if the partner, judge, owner of the school or whoever each works with is aware of the time it is going to take away from your jobs that you have and have approved their support for you?
Wade Garner Melanie first, please.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag that's a very good question, actually.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag when I served on the nominating committee, one of the questions I wanted to include in the questionnaire is the financial burden/sacrifice/commitment that is required in order to serve on a state or national or any volunteer board.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I'm very fortunate currently in that I am a part owner in a freelance firm in suburban Chicago and I'm able to set my own schedule to some degree. True, I'm not able to take all the jobs I want to take -- and, in fact, a friend just today asked me if I was ready financially to accept this time and travel and service and focus commitment. I said I was, knowing the financial and time management challenges that lie ahead.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I've been fortunate, again, because I've been on the board for the past three years as a director and for the last year as the vice president, so I've been able to juggle my time and plan for the upcoming three remaining years on the board, putting my personal life in order and arranging with my business partner, who happens to be my brother-in-law, to pick up the slack at our office.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I've been busy hiring and training young reporters to be able to cover our client base while I'm gone, and I'm very good at working on the road. We have an amazing support staff, so all I need to do is e-mail my jobs in and I'm able -- somewhat! -- to continue earning a living in my "day job" while I travel or meet and greet or serve or network on behalf of NCRA.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Yes, it's a burden but one I'm willing to take and prepared to handle. Thanks.
Wade Garner Judy, please.
Judy Lehman I think you are correct, Shirley, that there is a great deal of commitment to NCRA board service, esp as Pres.
Judy Lehman No question about it. And my board of directors is most certainly aware of my commitments.
Judy Lehman As a matter of fact, the college board president wrote an endorsement testimonial for my nomination as NCRA P-E that is located on my web site vote4jude.com
Judy Lehman He is also an attorney that I worked with over the years when I was actively reporting so he knows my work and my commitment at more than one level.
Judy Lehman As an aside, I guess, i am also a member of the BoD of the college and we board members are the shareholders (owners) of the school.
Judy Lehman Thank you, Wade.
Wade Garner Short follow-up, Melanie, if you wish.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Timing is everything. I was elected as vice president last year and spent this year preparing to serve as president elect and then president. Much more information about me is on my campaign Web site, MelanieForNCRA.com. I'm ready, willing, and able to serve in this position for you.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Thanks.
Wade Garner Short follow-up, Judy, if you wish.
Judy Lehman As Melanie mentions, the time is ripe for my moving forward on the NCRA board. I am prepared, I have the experience and the knowledge and the intellect and the demeanor to lead in all these facets and I absolutely welcome the opportunity to serve the membership of NCRA. Thank you.
Wade Garner We will have a closing statement from each candidate, starting with Judy.
Judy Lehman We will all benefit from increased opportunity to share information and to dialogue.
Judy Lehman I invite everyone to peruse my web site at your leisure. YouTube video link on the links page. My complete CV on the credentials. What your colleagues have to say about me and all those other folks in those other areas in addition to courtr reporting that I have worked with over the years.
Judy Lehman I have some updating yet to do ont he issues page.
Judy Lehman I do all my own web work since that's an area I have a little experience in, so sometimes it takes a few minutes for me to get more postings up
Judy Lehman I'm also happy to answer emails and share any and all information I can. Once again, contact information and LOTS of background information about who I am on the site.
Judy Lehman Thanks for the fabulous job of moderating, Wade. Thanks to all you who came out to enjoy this evening, and thank you to Melanie again for agreeing to participate tonight.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I wouldn't have missed it, Judy.
Wade Garner A closing statement from Melanie, please.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag I look forward to seeing many of you in Washington, D.C., next week for our annual convention. Whether or not you're able to attend in person, please mark your calendars for next Thursday, August 6, and vote online, wherever in the world you may be. The voting window will be approximately noon to midnight Eastern time.
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Thanks for taking the time to read these remarks, visit our Web sites, and be involved in your future governance. I've been serving on the NCRA board for the last four years and am poised to continue my efforts to increase career satisfaction for all of us in our beloved profession. I'm trustworthy, transparent, and accessible. Through direct member voting, the choice truly is up to you, our members. Thanks so much!
Melanie Humphrey-Sonntag Good night!
Judy Lehman And a very good night to all.
Jason Meadors *applause* Nicely done, all.
Kathryn A. Thomas *applause*
SueLynn Morgan Excellent job, everyone!
Kristin Ashenhurst Great job to both of my fellow Illinoisans. Thanks!!
Mark Renzi Good night, All. Thanks much - Big Applause!
Debi Cheyne What an exceptional experience. Thanks to all.