rough drafts

 Lainie:

PMJI but you bring up a very sorry situation, the passing of the expedited/DC requests of counsel.  Part of the reason is the good realtime you speak of.  I just finished some depos where counsel did four days of testimony, depos, in a case going to a hearing the following week.  This is a case with national implications and is, in fact, under the microscope in the state capital and in Congress in Washington, D.C.

"I want dirty ASCII on these depos."  I said, "Sorry.  We can give you final copy same day or next a.m. or any day you pick on an expedited basis."  He said, "How come?  I get dirty ASCII all the time."  I gave the song and dance lecture of you can't use it in court, you can't quote, etc., and, by the way, it will have page and line numbers.  His response requires evaluation.  He said, "Gee, that would be better than the last hearing.  We didn't have page and line numbers and it was really hard to get everybody on the same page for impeachment and/or reading prior testimony into the record."

Oh, yeah, everyone puts the disclaimers on the rough transcript but it doesn't stop an attorney from using it like it was a final.  The big issue in this case I'm referring to was the difference in price.  Attorneys can figure this out and they will opt for the cheaper, no question.

Now for my rhetorical question:  Why do we continue to provide rough ASCII when we know there is a hearing/trial coming up?  Why does an attorney order a rough?  "Oh, it's just going to my expert witness to prepare for his depo on Monday."  So your expert is going to base his opposing testing on the rough created today of this expert?  Where did we create this monster of rough is fine?  Who said?  "Well, it's sworn testimony and it's produced by the court reporter!"

I've quoted this so many times over the years I'm tired of it but I will drag it out once more:  Famous comic strip.... from sometime in the past, I admit... called Pogo.  Pogo said, "We have met the enemy and he is us."

<G>AllenS 

G. Allen,

I would like to have an instruction sheet to hand to the attorneys when they ask for a rough draft which would give instructions that they can't have the rough draft unless ordering the transcript.  Also added would be the things yoiu told the attorney that day plus other things that you or members of the forum might think of that we could put on this form.

Could we perhaps have ideas from forum members as to the different things we should put on a form like this?  This way we could educate the attorneys without saying a word.  As was indicated by the attorney that got to court, he had no idea probably that he didn't even have page numbers.

We have actually suggested rough draft many times because the workload was too heavy to get the job edited, proofread before the time they needed it.  It has saved us from staying up all night and having to give up an assignment the next day in many instances.

Allen,

Love your post.  It's something I've been saying for years:  We've created the mess we're in.

I did need to delete your sentence which referenced a price structure for same day delivery and dirty ASCII since that is forbidden to be discussed, unfortunately, on this forum.

Shirley,

This may not be what you're looking for, but it might.  On my "roughs," this page goes on the front.

 As follows:

UNEDITED REALTIME TRANSCRIPTION DISCLAIMER

The following transcript of proceedings, or any portion thereof, is being delivered SCOPED and UNCERTIFIED by the court reporter.
The purchaser agrees not to disclose this realtime, unedited transcription in any form (written or electronic) to anyone who has no connection to this case.  This is an unofficial transcription which should NOT be relied upon for purposes of verbatim citation of testimony.
This transcription has not been proofread.  It is a draft transcript, NOT a certified transcript.  As such, it may contain computer-generated mistranslations of stenotype code or electronic transmission errors, resulting in inaccurate or nonsensical symbols which cannot be deciphered by non-stenotypists.
Corrections will be made in the preparation of the certified transcription, resulting in differences in content, page and line numbers, punctuation, and formatting.

To everyone else:

Thanks so much for jumping in on this thread.  It has definitely sparked some great discussion and also has morphed into one or two other threads.

(tipping hat)

 Breck:

I love what you put on the front of the transcript; but... you knew this was coming.... that doesn't stop an attorney from quoting from it when he feels the need.

"I just need the defendant's opening statement to prepare my closing."  And then he quotes all over the place.  YOu can't stop them from doing it except by not giving it to them in the first place.

When I get an order for a rough, my response is you'll get a final in the Email tonight or in the a.m., depending on what they want, and that's that. <G>

All we have to do is say no and the problem... and it is a big problem... goes away.

<G>AllenS 

Just my two cents on the rough issue...

Espousing that we shouldn't provide rough drafts based solely on the fact that we know attorneys are going to misuse them is a rather draconian approach, don'cha think?  I mean, with that theory, the kid at Wal*Mart should refuse to sell me a screwdriver because I might walk out into the parking lot and lodge it in somebody's skull.
 
We are service providers, and one of those services that counsel have come to expect is the provision of a rough.  I do one on every job, and if no one expressly asks for it, I'll send an e-mail around to all telling them one's available at an added cost; and I too put a very similar disclaimer as Breck's on every one of them. If all they do is go back to the office and use it to prepare their summary or refresh themselves on day one before day two, then I've filled an invaluable need that a tape-recorder or videotape can't.  If they parade into court the next morning and start quoting chapter and verse from it, and their opponent is not alert enough to call them out, then someone's got grounds for appeal... but I, the reporter, did nothing wrong.

I do agree that we should do a little Q&A on what exactly it is they need.  If you can ascertain they've got a hearing in the next day or so, then, yeah, tell them they're gonna need a rush final and then deliver it.  But if all they really need is to prep for another depo, then cajoling them into a daily copy or leaving the rough draft fees on the table when they tell you to get bent certainly isn't the approach I'd take.

Mods, might be a good ideer to break off the rough draft discussion into its own thread? 

 Well, Mike, I would argue the answer is location and state rules.

In Arizona a court reporter's transcript may be read for evidence purposes or may be used for impeachment.  There is no provision in our licensure rules for a licensed CR to provide less than a final, certified transcript.  Yes, you can provide a rough for the lawyer to use as notes, uncertified but that doesn't stop the consumer from violating the law.

And guess whose license is on the line if the lawyer reads from a less than final/certified transcript during subsequent proceedings?  It's the licensed reporter who is on the line.  Do you really want to place your license on the line to provide an invaluable service not available from a tape recorder?  Or Do you then go ahead and provide a final?  Or you could even get your client in trouble.  Reading from a noncertified transcript requires proof of the accuracy of the matter quoted.  To then assert it's a reporter's transcript -- not indicating it's a rough--- is wrong and puts lots of people in jeopardy.  And I know the argument that you can't control the consumer's use of the product but, remember, you provided to him what he will misuse.  It's like the gun cases against the manufacturers of the guns.  No guns, no killing.

 
Hey, charge for a rough and provide a final, that's being done from time to time or so I hear; but a rough, no way.  I do provide daily copy when it's requested/required as we've all done for many years. 

<G>AllenSonntag, FAPR, RDR, CRR, CR AZ 

 Your wish is my command, Mike.  :-)  Hope I split it off in an okay place.

This time it only took three splits.  (Thank heavens!)